Gop Debate 4: Trump, Carson say wages too high!

I had to work last night and didn't get to watch the debate, but boy did this jump out at me in the material afterward:

The GOP candidates were asked about the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour and if it should be raised. Of course, all the GOP candidates roundly opposed this, but some went further:

Donald Trump and Ben Carson actually had the balls to say that wages in the U.S. are too high. Well, maybe in CEO land where they live they're too high, but out here in the middle it's just the opposite. As a (formerly?) middle class American who hasn't had a meaningful wage increase in over 15 years, I beg to differ, and I'd gladly invite Mr. Trump and Mr. Carson to see how well they could live for a year on what I make.

Marco Rubio, who apparently had a night telling plenty of whoppers, chimed in that if we raise wages, American workers will become more expensive than machines and thus be out of jobs!!!! Marco, you are out of touch. One of the major problems in the American workplace the past 20 years or so is that American corporations are willing to spend *millions* or even *billions* on new technology to put workers out of jobs, but aren't willing to pay American workers $10 or $15 an hour. It's a tragedy that American workers in many businesses are unable to afford to buy the products they produce or sell, and that in some major American cities, people like teachers and police officers are unable to afford to live in the city in which they work!!!

What's wrong with this picture? The American dream is dying, and people like Trump and Carson are the executioners. How can Republicans continue to get American to vote for candidates like them who are downright enemies to their way of life? It amazes me how easily Americans can be tricked into seeing the trees instead of the forest.

Oh, another interesting item. The Republican candidates had nothing but praise for the moderators of this debate. Surprise: The moderators work for Fox Business News.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/republicans-m … 377346e81e


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  • Bear he recently made mention of making a speech on it I believe but when you break it down our country is fundamentally socialist. What do u think wellfare is. To call him out for it is rather short sited......if he said he was a socialist then I would say that's one more point for him in the being straightforward department
    doankyl 11/18/2015 08:24 AM
  • Doankyl, Bernie calls himself a socialist. At least he has in the recent past, and I think he even represented the Socialist Party earlier in his political career.

    I would guess, though, that he doesn't call himself one anymore, now since he's seeking the Democratic nomination for president. If he were to win the nomination, you can bet this will be commercial No. 1, and 2, and 3, etc., etc, used against him by the GOP.

    He's officially an Independent in the Senate, but he caucuses with the Dems.
    BearinFW 11/18/2015 01:20 AM
  • "...and to conserve it as the great constitutional republic it has been". HaHa manjoguy, I thought that sarcasm was to be sprinkled on, not ladled. I often wondered who wrote those Newsmax headlines. Can you send along some extra copies of Atlas Shrugged--I'm almost out of TP. Thanks!
    furball 11/16/2015 01:17 PM
  • For me I'm split between trump and Bernie trump isn't a traditional Republican he's in no way a hardcore right wing nut like the rest. Has continually laid out plans to get the countries leading experts onto the problem rather than doing it himself. A good leader knows how to delegate. Trust trump with foreign policy? Hell no, but a brain trust made of people that has made it their life to study this stuff? Ok

    Bernie Sanders seem to be the most straightforward of the dems. His facts are usually pretty accurate. You'll see some exaggerations but not so much that is an outright lie. Not a supporter of 15$ wage hike since it would destroy the economy in smaller more rural areas but his plans to disban big banks has me intrigued. Manjo curious why do you call Bernie a socialist? Also Republicans are elitists ( steal from the poor and middle class to give to the rich) both have flaws that's why our country has gone from best in the world to meh
    doankyl 11/16/2015 11:19 AM
  • Manjo, there are other stories on the Net about the GOP wage discussion. That just happened to be the one I grabbed. You are a gay man, I presume. Would you REALLY vote to elect someone like Ted Cruz, who just attended a rally hosted by a preacher who advocates death for gay people? Someone like Cruz would be a damned big change, all right, and not at all the kind I'd care to see.

    Believe it or not, I could probably handle Donald Trump, who though he grandstands A LOT isn't ideologically rigid and could be open to compromise on some things and I think would be open to actually getting things done. And that's part of the problem with the current Tea Party crew: They think compromise is a dirty word, or else that it means do what I want only. Screw that. It's a conservative fantasy and not the way government works. And it's also a Republican fantasy that we basically don't need government. Do we want to live in a country where a few people are ultra, ultra rich and everyone else is on a subsistence life?

    I'm open to change. I actually kind of like Rand Paul. But the kind of change that Cruz and the Tea Party maniacs want, I want NO part of.

    Are you one of those folks who believes that Democrats will keep the GOP from doing great harm to gay people, so fuck it. I'll vote hard-core Republican because they can't screw us over that bad?

    And in case you haven't noticed, the GOP will go straight for your wallet, too. Just from another direction. By holding your wages and benefits down and redistributing your earnings to your company CEO and shareholders. Thanks for nothing, which is what the Wall Street first types have done for American workers.

    If taxes are your biggest worry, ditch Massachusetts and move down here to TX, where we have no state income tax but the highest sales tax in the country. It's a lot more convenient for rich people to shift more of the tax burden to lower income people, who have to spend a much higher percentage of their income on taxable goods.
    BearinFW 11/16/2015 04:32 AM
  • Why was there a link to the leftist Huffington Puffington Post?! About as socialist media you can possibly get. In the GOP debate before this most recent one, some candidates had disdain for the moderators. Surprise. Harwood works for MSNBC (and the communist New York Slimes) which is a leftist "news" propaganda operation (hardly the one to host an unbiased debate). Wage discussion? A vote for Bernie-boy will have that newly earned $15/hr nicely "re-distributed" as socialists are so wont to do. A vote for Hillary Rotten? Hold on to your wallets. Democrats love taxing people in case you haven't noticed?! When mentioning Republicans you have to distinguish - there are the Neocon/Statist/Establishment Republicans (the crony capitalists and certainly Hillary Rotten is one of them) and there are the Conservative/Grassroots Republicans. As some commenters have mentioned there isn't much difference between Dems and the establishment GOP. If we want real change for the good of our country(and to conserve it as the great constitutional republic that it has been) we'd want to think about voting conservative. Democrats want to make us socialists (and enslave us to big, expensive, invasive government) and the establishment GOP, well, we know the not-so-great place that'd take us.
    manjoguy 11/15/2015 11:17 PM
  • Personally, I agree that the min wage must be raised. A national raise to $15 may be a little nuts, tho. Simply something like $15 means two different things for high-expense large cities than it does to a less expensive rural or suburb community.

    I'm totally against Reganomics. Give money to someone who already has a nice cushion and some will be spent, much will be saved. Give someone with less means and it's almost likely that a bigger percentage of that will be spent, keeping the funds in circulation and more likely to stimulate the economy.
    OCalig 11/14/2015 10:32 PM
  • Actually there hasn't been just a whole of difference between Dems and the GOP on economic policy in the past 30-40 years. They've both been all-in with Wall Street. The one significant difference is that the Dems give A LOT more lip service to helping the poor, and actually do to some extent. Poor people don't for the most part vote Republican, so the GOP doesn't give a rat's ass about them and they've gotten so brazen in recent years that they don't even *act* sympathetic anymore.

    Both parties have neglected the middle class, and now in the past 20 years or so, the investor class types have been hard at work robbing the nation's middle class. And no one has done anything to help. Social programs are great and necessary, but the reality is that they don't do a damned thing for the nation's middle class, which is basically on it's own against the ultra rich. What chance do we have against that in a country and world, really, that values a person based primarily on their bank account?

    As for whether higher wages do long-term damage. ... Well, I'd rather have more money and be able to buy some things that cost more, than not get any pay increases while the cost of things continues to rise anyway, which is the way things are today. In an economy whose health is still greatly based on consumer spending, that's not a long-term sustainable model.

    As for the belief that wealth trickles down and the ultra wealthy are job creators .... that was long ago exposed as a myth. The investor class just uses its wealth to create more wealth that basically helps NOBODY. Not really even themselves. How many billions does a person need???

    As for wealthy philanthropists, their money largely is donated in three categories: to help children, especially underprivileged children; to fund the arts; and as gifts to universities. While all of these things are of value to society, they do absolutely NOTHING to help the country's struggling middle class. If they really want to help the country, instead of giving a multimillion-dollar gift to a museum or university or nonprofit, hire some people (or keep on people you were going to fire). Letting people work at a livable wage is how the wealthy can really help the country. Companies used to understand this principle. Why have they lost that understanding??
    BearinFW 11/13/2015 03:50 PM
  • Guys, you are too focused on the question of raising the minimum wage. Perhaps what we should be looking at is a total overhaul of our economic system which would result in the poor and middle class sharing in the wealth produced by all of our efforts.

    As I see it, there are two major forces at work here; Capitalism and Socialism. Many politicians today would like us to see these forces as an either/or choice, BUT the truth is that they have co-existed for hundreds of years and, in reality, they need each other. Capitalism is the basic model that has built the U.S. and other nations in financial ways while Socialism has built them in human terms.

    What was generally recognized at the end of the 19th Century was that the industrial revolution and its capitalist engine was running amok in the "Gilded Age." Working people at the bottom of the economic pyramid were suffering while the robber barons who organized businesses into monopolies exploited the lower classes to attain obscene wealth. We are now at that point again. But this time the extremely wealthy have taken a lesson from history and now they know that to keep us permanently down and out, they need to also control the government. SO they have gone about buying the politicians to ensure that we are kept down while they get even richer.

    The idea that wealthy individuals are the "job creators" is the result of enormous wealth trying to shape the discussion to the exclusion of the human element - Socialism. Money in the hands of the middle class and the poor creates jobs. Big money is there only to take full advantage of their spending.

    In the past a majority of citizens thought of us as a cohesive society. "We are all in this together" was a common phrase that summed up that feeling of simultaneous patriotism and economic justice . . . and it worked for several decades that I am happy to have lived through. NOW the game is totally changed by big money. ONLY honest politicians using the tools of government will be able to extract us from this morass. In my opinion there are only two who qualify at present; Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.
    rjzip 11/12/2015 08:32 PM
  • Once again I do NOT favor the Republican economics I'm against both sides because they have both failed this country. If you raise wages without regulating the corporation you are just creating steps in a ladder why can't y'all see this? We raise wages corporations raise price of goods (not because they have to but because they can) cost of living goes up and cycle starts again!! Like I keep saying lets fix the problem not the symptom.

    Barney I don't HAVE to have a second job I CHOOSE to have a second job. I also have to pay for a 95,000$ home (4 bed 5 bath) I just bought along with a 2007 Suzuki vitara I bought along with really high insurances. Now I would love to be paid 15-20$ an hr that would leave me with a ton of money left over and I'd be able to pay off my home in roughly 11 yrs rather than 30 but I'd rather take 30 yrs than get laid off as a way to control expenses.

    Are you so blind that you really don't think that a crooked corporation won't continue to be crooked after we raise wages ? Sir you havnt just visited wonderland you took the mad hatters seat at the tea party. Corporations operate on projected profits easiest thing to control is hours and benefits. Replace full timers with part timers. Reduce number of employees and increase workload. You yourself are saying this is happening so far it's ur biggest complaint. And what are they wanting to do to fix it barney? NOTHING! No instead they just want to increase wages and ignore the fact that these mega businesses are operating off of slave labor. None of you have yet to address that problem either. I'm looking at the long term what happens in five years when they are telling all the sheeple that they have to raise prices on food to cover wages? No ones going to stop eating. They will say hell I have the money and keep buying. That's the first domino then fuel prices go up. Then housing. Then utilities. Not because they have to but because they can and because people will pay for it. Just like insurance. The biggest failure of obamacare is the fact that it doesn't control corporate spending or put a cap on their greed
    doankyl 11/12/2015 10:34 AM
  • The idea that all small businesses and small governments would not be able to pay their workers a living wage with benefits is just not true. If we lift all boats starting from the bottom then the workers have more spendable income and like most workers spend almost all of it. If you allow the investor class to get it they continue to reinvest it and do not put it into the local economy and this causes stagnation. If you like Rebublican economics then go and look at what Truman and Eisenhower did and you will find that they raised the minimum wage tremendously and reinvested in the American worker and we had one of the biggest booms in US history. Then we get to Regan and we moved to a deregulated economy and a trickle down economic policy and it has been the doom of the American worker ever since. If you raise wages you gain more in taxes, more businesses are started or expanded and this idea that small business will not be able to stay in business is nuts. It is not price that makes or breaks a business but the ability to understand what it takes to be in business. If a government can't give raises to its workers then it should be replaced! You say you work for a non-profit and have to have a second job doesn't this sound sort of wrong to you? Don't you think the model should be that you go to work for a wage that provides you an average lifestyle with health benefits and you don't have to work two jobs? It was not that long ago that our parents and your grandparents were able to do that so what happened? Were non-profits, small governments and small businesses having such a tough time in the 50's, 60's and 70's that we had to slash benefits for workers, remove regulations on safety and health, give back corporations their taxes so they could invest overseas, adopt a political system that allows wealthy individuals and corporations to gain favors that you and I don't get and you think that this is what we signed up for? We send off our young men and women to defend this country from what threats to you and me or to the wealthy and big corporations? Ask yourself why other countries hate our government and want to strike fear in us? Did you and I do something that pissed them off? You need to start asking questions about what is happening and why and not keep accepting the same old BS that is given to you as propaganda that keeps you in a position of fear.
    barney290 11/12/2015 09:53 AM
  • I don't want to sound like an apologist for Democrats on economic policy. Fact is that for much of the past 30 years or so the Democratic Party has been a captive of the same Wall Street first mentality that the GOP has. I do at least find hope though in the fact that *some* Democrats are starting to get what a catastrophic consequence the investor-class-driven economy has had first on the working poor, and more recently on the middle class as well. Dems like Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders do get it and as a result are gradually pulling more mainstream Democrats, such as Hillary Clinton, along with them. Now we're a LONG way from seeing any actual progress on this issue, but at least people are waking up to it and talking about it. That's a start in what promises to be a long process.
    BearinFW 11/12/2015 04:55 AM
  • Well, doankyl, then you firsthand know what my last post was talking about. There's no real way around it but that many American corporations are not treating their employees much better than slave labor. Now Trump and Carson would prefer *lower* wages? Seriously, is the goal of this country's monied elite to make this nation more like Mexico? That's certainly the direction we're headed, and I'm not talking about ethnic mix.

    What has been lost in the last 30-40 years is that companies used to make their employees partners in the company. When the company profited, they profited. Now pretty much all the profits go to the company. And companies wonder why employees are no longer as loyal as they used to be????? Loyalty is a two-way street, and what's left of it is only running one way right now in most companies.

    If a company would rather fire you than give you a 2 percent raise, what kind of loyalty does that inspire?

    You have experience in the "new" American reality for hourly workers. Tell me why you favor Republican economic policies again????
    BearinFW 11/12/2015 04:15 AM
  • I do agree with you bear on the fact that trump and Carson are wrong about wages being to high. I just don't see how wage hikes will do anything but give us a very very short term fix.

    Maybe instead they could regulate business growth and corporation management etc. I don't know just throwing something out there

    Also I can confirm.....I work a second job at home depot. Part timers have practically replaced full timers in my store and they are kept at 26 hrs it is actually company policy they can't go over 26 in our store
    doankyl 11/11/2015 09:55 PM
  • An additional problem with many minimum wage employers that doesn't even get talked about is that they limit employees' hours because they don't want to provide benefits, or at most offer only minimal benefits. So not only might a person be making $8 an hour, but they may be limited to 20 hours or so. I know part of the argument is that these jobs are kids' jobs and are just entry level jobs to gain experience, not to live on.

    I think that may have once been true, but next time you go in a fast-food restaurant or a big box chain like Walmart or Target, pay attention to the people working there. More than likely, you'll find the majority of them are working age adults, and they aren't just doing it for the experience.

    True story: I used to work part-time at Target in addition to my regular job, until my back went out. A nice woman who worked with me, probably around 40, had a teenage son who developed a potentially fatal heart disease that required multiple operations and extended hospital stays. The wife and her husband *both* were working multiple minimum-wage jobs in order to make enough money to live on and hopefully pay some of their son's *huge* medical bills. Fortunately she worked at Target, which did provide health insurance at 20 hours a week, but still, despite both parents busting their butts, they were having a hard time making it and looked to me like prime candidates for medical bankruptcy. (Yes, employers have so cut back on health insurance benefits that many policies today have extremely high deductibles -- so high, that yes, you can have health insurance and still be forced to file for bankruptcy.)

    Anyway, the sorry state of our healthcare system is another story for another day. The point of this story is that with the continuing evolution of the U.S. economy into a service-based economy, wages and working conditions are deteriorating for the American workforce. And there are plenty of good, hardworking Americans who despite busting their butts, are just barely keeping their head above water -- or more likely just very slowly drowning. The sorry state of wages is why most people, to the amazement of the Wall Street crowd, aren't happy with the state of the American economy. If you're not making it, or you're afraid you may get laid off any day now, it's hard to be very optimistic. Fact: American corporations are returning a smaller share of earnings to their workers than EVER before, since they started measuring this very important statistic in the 1950s.

    And Trump and Carson think wages are too high. Hah!!!! They don't live in the same America as the people they hope to fool into voting for them.
    BearinFW 11/11/2015 08:10 PM
  • Ok barney I understand that multi billion dollar corporations won't be hurt by that but how is the city job going to pay for the wage hike? Or a small mom and pop business? You can't pull money out of your ass. It has to come from somewhere. So explain to me HOW they are going to pay for it
    doankyl 11/11/2015 04:33 PM
  • What blew me away was the assertion by Trump and Carson that wages overall -- not just the minimum wage -- are too high. That's just baloney. I know I was better off 20 years ago than I am today, because my wages in that time have not even remotely kept up with inflation.

    That same thing is true for many people. Employers just don't want to pay people a living wage anymore, and that is not just restricted to the debate on the minimum wage, which is basically just slave labor.

    Well, I suppose one way to reduce illegal immigration would be to turn this country into another Mexico.

    I suppose this vision would produce prosperity, but for whom? Certainly not the working men and women of this country.
    BearinFW 11/11/2015 04:30 PM
  • The arguments against raising wages is so not true. But if you want to keep drinking the Kool-Aid be my guest. Study after study has disproved this notion and it is only put out by the Reagan Economic fanatics and so without basis. I find it interesting that those on the bottom of the economic scale find solace in agreeing with those at the top. The whining of corporations, businesses, governments and investment people that workers should be happy they have a job, don't complain about conditions, never ask for raises and swallow the shit they feed you is nothing but propaganda. But then the attitude of keeping ones head low, don't make waves and always be fearful of being replaced tends to empower the ruling class. This same argument is used about gun control, police brutality and race. Don't stand up and fight for rights because you will be punished. Having an ass like Rubio say anything about economics is a laugh. I am not sure anyone here can take someone else's "charge card" and use it as he or she pleases and then decide which of the bills is yours and the rest are paid by the owner of the card. I know in my career that was illegal especially for a non-profit organization.
    barney290 11/11/2015 04:16 PM
  • When you raise the minimum wage every union contract is tied to that number so every union member gets a percentage raise based on that new minimum. This increases all costs within the economy so then they lower wage earner still can only buy what they were able to buy originally. Food, cars, lumber, medicines, doctors services all will rise with any minimum wage hike. Basically eliminating the wage hike.
    AtlantaMale 11/11/2015 03:36 PM
  • i so agree... it's all corporate greed now
    BDGF 11/11/2015 03:36 PM
  • Also barney as of yet no one has quoted anything if you have an opinion that's fine but keep ur lies to yourself
    doankyl 11/11/2015 02:43 PM
  • Whoa barney!! Take a second and breath before you stuff my mouth with anymore words. I believe that anyone who works hard should be compensated properly especially with competitive raises. BUT if wages are raised across America to 15$/hr that would be a 8$ increase that would decimate most smaller city economies........I work for the city of Bainbridge which is a non profit business. If the min wage was raised to 15$ from 7.50$ then the city which currently pays me 4$ over current min wage would be forced to bump me up to 19$/hr. They can't afford to pay all the workers that so at least 2 things WILL happen #1raise taxes by a lot! #2 layoffs. Probably at the min a third of the current employees will have to be laid off if not more.

    Now my comment on free market was not praise. I was pointing out that our system is a free market which allows businesses to take advantage of the system. Kour system is broken and needs fixing I AGREE but I think hiking up wages is not the right way to fix the problem.

    In fact if an idiot like you would do the research and study the ACTUAL affect of raising wages you'll see there are just as many problems caused as there are solved!
    doankyl 11/11/2015 02:13 PM
  • Anyone that believes that wages are too high or that we should leave our fragile economy in the hands of corporations and their hired guns(lobbyists) has his head in his ass. It is absolutely false that raising minimum wage costs jobs that is a lie and the proof is in numerous research projects that have disproved this Reagan idea time and time again. It is OK for corporations to steal our labor and refuse to compensate us for this is outrageous. Anyone that believes that the free market is the answer needs to live with Alice in Wonderland and eat mushrooms! There has been a deliberate attack on the workers in the US for decades and for some unknown reason workers have not seen it. Time and time again they vote against their own best interests both politically and on the job by refusing to support labor unions. Research shows that due to the decline in union membership over the last several decades has led to the American worker getting little in raises or benefits. In fact they have lost income, medical benefits and retirement income. Tell me anyone writing here has a pension or paid medical benefits when they retire? That used to be a fact of life for the generation previously yet it is gone and replaced with "Do it yourself or market based" plans for the individual. Yet we know from the past that most of us are not capable of doing the research needed, perseverance in saving or stability in your work or careers to do any of it. Yet corporate profits and productivity is through the roof? Tell me how many politicians or CEO's would work for decades and not be properly compensated for raising profits or productivity. Yet here in this blog I see that someone believes that workers don't deserve a raise? Are you kidding me? What sort of idiot believes any of this nonsense spewed out by the right? I would like to feel sorry for someone like this but to be honest we can't cure stupidity. I don't normally attack someone here as I feel everyone has the right to their opinions but when someone quotes lies as truths and supports ideas that have no basis in fact then I am going to call out such idiocy.
    barney290 11/11/2015 01:10 PM
  • I thought the questions were canned, too soft and directed at the person most likely to answer the way the crowd wanted to hear. I would of loved someone to ask any of the candidates if they would be willing to live on min wage for 1 month. I agree with your comments except I font think the excecutioners of the American Dream are the candidates, it think the reponsibility lies amongst the voting elig. population that does not take the time to learn the truth and vote in their best interest. Scary times.
    uclibear 11/11/2015 11:24 AM
  • Also need to point out the fact that we are a 'free market' means they can do what they want to increase their profits that means at everyone else's expense
    doankyl 11/11/2015 09:38 AM
  • Bear I'm sorry but I have to agree with minimum wage issues. Every single time we have a wage hike more people are laid off. On top of that look at the way it effects our goods and services. McDonald's for instance use to have a menu you could feed five people on for less than 20$. Now if u skimp two people might not break 20$. The real problem is the cost of living. If you want to fix the problem we need to make changes there. If you raise min wage to support a family when its not made to do that in the first place its just going to increase the cost of living.

    If we raised minimum wage to 100$/hour it would just decrease the value of the dollar. Same thing happens EVERY TIME.

    Fix the disease not the symptom
    doankyl 11/11/2015 09:31 AM